How BMW-, Mercedes-owned map specialist Here aims to stay a step ahead of Google

Here Technologies has successfully fended off competition from technology giants looking to move into high-definition mapping, which is one of the key components for autonomous driving. CEO Edzard Overbeek recently told Automotive News Europe Correspondent Nick Gibbs how the location data and technology platform provider will keep a step ahead of Google.

Volvo and Google used CES to announce a partnership on HD maps. How do you fight the tech giants?

We do pretty well. For example, the Mercedes S-Class with Level 3 autonomous capability uses our high-definition maps. We just launched with the BMW i7, which is currently Level 2 Plus and will go to Level 3. As far as I know, we are the largest supplier of HD maps in commercial contracts. Google has a relationship with Volvo, but we also have a relationship with Volvo, not for HD maps, but on other things.

What are your strengths against someone like Google?

They don't have our capabilities. For example, in Europe we have 85 percent of the market for the new ISA [intelligent speed assist] regulation, which needs to know the speed limit of the road you're driving on [to provide feedback to the driver if the posted speed limit is being exceeded]. The tech companies don't have that. The second is privacy. Companies are starting to realize that when you use Google Maps, you are basically selling your data to Google for them to build better advertisements. We don't do that. The third is that we have no fear of competition. We are neutral Switzerland when it comes to location data. We're not doing anything else with it. If you do business with the Googles of the world, then they might come into your industry.

Where are your biggest threats coming from in terms of startups?

It's a very relevant question, but I would probably have answered it differently five years ago when everybody and their mothers were stepping into mapping. Today, very few are left. Deepmap has been acquired [by chip provider Nvidia]. Civil Maps just got acquired [by lidar company Luminar]. So, of all the startups around mapping, I think very few have survived.

They were bought but they still exist, so aren't they a risk?

They got absorbed into a stack, becoming part of a vertically integrated system. That is not really a mapping competitor for us. People are starting to realize the importance of location data for all use cases, not just the autonomous vehicle. However, building this is very expensive and very complex. We have seen people try. And, yes, it's great to put a lidar on a car, drive Interstate 280 [a major north–south highway in the San Francisco Bay Area] and then say, "I've got a high-definition map of I-280." That's fine, but now do that for 200 countries around the world in near real time with refresh rates of 24 hours or less in every resolution type.

Can you gather data from customer cars like Google will do from the new Volvo EX90 SUV?

Yes, we have 35 million cars providing us sensor data that we make maps from. We extract the view from cameras and make a digital representation. That is what we do at scale. In our new Unimap we have 500 million kilometers of roads being processed every hour. So, it's great that Google has now access to Volvo and I don't want to downplay that, but it's a little bit different.

How are you downloading that information from cars?

We don't do the full image. It's not the full two terabytes of data because that would be uneconomical. Manufacturers allow us access from data feeds from the car sensor cluster.

What do the manufacturers get out of you extracting their data?

They get better maps. They get location-based services. We are sitting down with them on a whole array of new experiences when it comes to navigation. So, what is the next generation navigation look like? Is that only in the middle console or are we going to do OLED see-through displays and other displays in the car?

Can you extract high-definition data from customer cars?

Yes. You need lidar, which has millimeter precision. Radar and ultrasound are not high definition. They could be in the future but not today. We have arguably the largest lidar database in the world.

You announced at CES another way to deliver products, Unimap. How does that work?

In the past we started with one pipeline -- standard definition maps. Then we build another pipeline that provided traffic data. These are basically automated flows from a database that steers into the device -- a car, a phone, a drone, a robot … whatever. Then we added places data as a new pipeline, then high-definition data, then 3D maps. What we have done with Unimap is integrate them all into one pipeline.

What is the advantage?

Now we align the data feed so they make logical sense to each other. Five pipelines into one. Nobody else has this in the industry. For example, the traffic light information was not linked to the road information. Now it is. So, the road segments becomes much richer.

How does this benefit automakers?

They say this is what they need. With five different feeds, it becomes a spaghetti and with a very high cost to integrate. Having one pipeline is far more cost efficient.

What happens if someone just wants one element of that pipeline?

You just extract, for example, standard definition maps or just road curvature or tunnels. You only pay for that. It becomes a much more modular way to consume map data.

Is this all downloaded into the car?

It is today but in the future you can do that via the cloud.

What is Here's automotive/non-automotive split?

About 70 percent automotive and 30 percent non-automotive. The strategy is to grow both. We have a pretty large share of automakers already, but we are trying to expand that. In non-automotive, our focus is on transport and logistics, retail and e-commerce.

What's your geographic split?

Probably 40 percent U.S., 40 percent Europe, 20 percent Asia. China is an important market, but we don't operate directly in China. We have a joint venture with NavInfo that serves the inbound [non-Chinese] automakers there.

Where is the next big growth in automotive?

We have a lion's share in automotive. We have two new products, one is road alerts, for example, if the car ahead has broken down, we can display that. We also have autonomous driving zones, which is basically geofencing the map. If there is an environment where you don't want the autonomous driving system to be active, you can make sure it can't be activated there. Or, if there are certain events where you don't want the automated driving system to be active, you can basically shut it down.

What does a high-definition map mean?

Maps are for human beings. A car needs an instruction set; it needs machine language. That is where we are moving the company, toward more of a location, big-data company. A machine just takes the feed of a lane or a road curvature or a bridge or whatever.

Some companies have said that hands-free driving could be possible without high definition. Are you seeing that trend?

Over the last couple of years, certain companies have said sensors in the car are good enough, but I think everybody has stepped away from that thought. The realization now is that probably the most important sensor in the car is the map, and that everything feeds into that. A map looks around the corners, right? So, in automated driving, the car becomes aware of the situation and looks through buildings and around corners.

Is there anything automakers can take from the high-definition map and turn it into something interesting for the driver?

Yes, from a location-based services point of view. For instance, think about looking at a building and downloading the history of that building onto your car window. We are thinking along those lines.

What does having automakers as shareholders do for you? Does it protect you? How do they benefit?

It's very strategic for them. They took the decision to buy the company because they believe that the aggregation of data is vital for the car industry in general, not just for the shareholders. It's about making sure that they are independent from the big technology companies. I look at them as shareholders. We have very different conversations with them as shareholders than we do when we are talking about commercial contracts with them, and we don't mix the two.

Do your shareholders sometimes do business with your rivals?

Yes. There is no guarantee that they give us the business just because they are shareholders. We need to perform. That is the way it's set up. For example, BMW has a deal with Mapbox, and Nvidia is a partner with Mercedes on high-definition mapping. It's my job to make sure that we are better. It keeps me on my toes.